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  • So, as the remaining players of Oberin know, a situation has arised (it is a years old problem, mind you) in the game where the most meaningful way to level none-combat (and macroable combat skills) skills is just to macro them for a really, really long time. A good example of this is Anatomy - you are directly rewarded for levelling it, but levelling it consists of sitting in certain spots and repeating anatomy on several targets. This seems a bit odd to me as you are not actively rewarded for engaging in gameplay, solo, group or otherwise. You are rewarded for turning Oberin on and watching a movie on the other screen.


    While I appreciate that skills are uncapped and thus level exponentially harder, and it is difficult to remove macroing altogether, I believe that players should be actively rewarded for hunting, playing in general and leaving the macro to do it should be a slower, safer option. 

    I believe the best proposal for this would be long quest chains - ones that would not be easily completed by novice players, that award a fixed percentage of successes towards the next level of one of your skills. This means that for the people who are looking at going beyond levels like 13, 14, 15 that they would have a more engaging way to level off skills like Alchemy, Healing, Meditation, Anatomy, Stealth, Lockpicking, Tracking ect then just simply macroing the skills and repeating the action until they decide its time to log off.

    For example an alchemy quest - you would have to gather several creature drops which you would trade to different alchemists in different towns, forcing you to kill many different creatures. After that, you would have to take the resulting items to far away NPCs which are difficult to get to, but possible solo. Trade the items into the NPC, get your successes. 

    Obviously this would have to be balanced to still require a very large amount of time, but for the average high level player it should be at least slightly faster than macroing your skills. A part of this is that the higher you level your skills - the less of a percentage towards your next level these quests will give, to keep the exponential levelling curve. 

    Once you are looking at numbers like 800,000 successes to the next skill, spending a day playing, gathering materials and getting 1, 2% of that skill suddenly may lucrative compared to just macroing 0.5% over 10 hours then turning Oberin off.

    Keep in mind I'm not suggesting an easy one and done quest, it should take a long time, hours, more maybe? It would depend on how long the devs want to make it and how rewarding they want it to be. I don't know exactly how it should be balanced, I just wanted to drop the suggestion!

    So, what do people think?

     

  • Quest chains would actually be a great idea.
    Am I right to assume that you mean that one has to do a certain order of quests?
    Do Quest X to unlock Quest Y, Quest Y to go to Quest Z etc, until you reach a final quest that gives you a certain reward, such as an amount of successes in a certain skill, or a big item, etc.. And the quests can only be completed once (perhaps opening quests that can be done every x hours) ?

    This would be good for all levels and a nice way to bring more diversity to the game as it is now.

    You are definitely right about Anatomy. It's a skill that does reward you for basically sitting still and doing nothing but clicking. However, it is the same for alchemy/enchanting (raises your class level and thus your maximum hit points / magic points) and meditation. It's fairly easy to macro both of these together, with meditation having a direct influence i battles (you regenerate your magic points faster). All of these, anatomy included, can be leveled in the safety of town, and most efficiently, basically.

    However, it's not as fun and engaging as going out there and hunt with your friends, enjoy your time together and level skills in such a manner, though more slowly.

    Other combat abilities (archery, melee, special/fighter, special/rogue, special/ranger, magery/wizard, magery/druid, magery/cleric) are better leveled in a hunting condition (though sometimes grinding) then staying in the relative safety of the town.

    Crafting skills are mainly leveled in town (you have to go out to harvest to gather materials for some) and do give a direct reward to the player (repair your bow/club,  have gm weapons that are more durable, your own armor, capability to repair your own armor, etc...), and that would be somewhat harder to create a viable way to level them while hunting, and they're easily macro'd as well !
    When you are in a game like Oberin that relies heavily on clicking, waiting a bit, clicking again, and so on .. to raise the amount of successes you gather, it'd most likely require some heavy changes to change this.

    And that's where the exponential leveling curve comes into play and is quite a barrier, but perhaps also time to realize something. Leveling only rewards so much and only makes your character a little bit stronger.
    Going out there and hunt difficult places, kill different monsters, use different party setups, ... is a far better experience than raising your character level at some point.
    Levels are something that helps you accomplish something, but you still need the ability to defeat certain monsters and go to certain dungeons and places to hunt in Oberin, and this is far more important than your level. If you do not have the experience of hunting, even if you were to hunt with a level 20 character, you'll probably wipe.

    Perhaps a little less focus on levels and more on an ability to play is required, hmm smile ? And maybe those quests could help accomplish that !


     

  • (Edit: sorry, I accidentally submitted before I had actually typed the meat of my post)

    Yeah! Down with levels! Wipe?

    ...

    Bobley poses an important question though. Past a certain point, levels become less and less important than actual skill. And skill is something gained by going outside the comfort zone, taking risks, and yes, even dying/wiping. I've always thought that every death is a lesson. Sometimes that lesson might just be 'don't go out during lag spikes', but most of the time there will be something I could have done differently to evade the gray. There's nothing wrong with dying a lot...just don't die the same way twice!

    I believe that players should be actively rewarded for hunting, playing in general

    Saybel

    Agreed, but I'll go a bit further and say that actively hunting/playing is its own reward. I doubt anyone actually enjoys grinding. Having fun and making memories is a far better reward than any skill increase. And eventually, the skills will go up on their own anyways.

    That being said, I'm all for the proposed chain quests. We could get really creative with these – the alchemy one is a good start. It would also be cool if the quests periodically changed or moved around, to keep things interesting. Say, for example, one of those alchemists decides that he has enough of X, and now he's looking to collect Y.
     

  • Quest chains would actually be a great idea. Am I right to assume that you mean that one has to do a certain order of quests? Do Quest X to unlock Quest Y, Quest Y to go to Quest Z etc, until you reach a final quest that gives you a certain reward, such as an amount of successes in a certain skill, or a big item, etc.. And the quests can only be completed once (perhaps opening quests that can be done every x hours) ? This would be good for all levels and a nice way to bring more diversity to the game as it is now.

    bobley


    This is exactly what I mean - rather lengthy quest chains which force the players to engage themselves in gameplay rather than AFK - difficult to the point where it requires you to expend time and resources, easy enough so they can be either completed alone or in small hunting parties.

    Although I agree level focus shouldn't be the center of Oberin, when you play alone it essentially does become that because there is nobody to hunt with other than on saturdays. Having long quest chains granting successes becmes both the carrot and the stick, the tool to reward a player for spending his time in game and part of the fun of the game, because as it stands now optimal levelling for certain skills and fun are the polar opposite of each other. Anat is far from the only skill to suffer from this issue (meditation is a prime example too) - it just happens to be the most efficient, coming in at around 1,500 - 1,800 successes per hour, depending on who you ask.

    This way, you can go on a long quest chain, travel around for success, maybe in a 2-4man band. If you have a large group on then you can go to ID for something similar MPRs. Anything that rewards active gameplay right now is sorely needed for the game - people should have a reason to seek eachother out and be engaged in the world.


    Most other MMOs use increasing gear strengh and increasing creature power to create the want for people to play longer - Oberin isn't like this, several things would have to be reworked before using gear to incentize people to play over levels (hello armor). I think the exponentional levelling curve fits oberin a bit better, and I still think people should find it extremely hard to level past 14-15. There should just be a better way of playing then using your anat/healing/meditation macro over and over again in town. The macros shouldn't be taken away, throwing people under the bus like that isn't a good idea - just a better alternative that rewards people for playing the game the way it is supposed to be played.

    Yeah! Down with levels! Wipe?

    ...

    Jedd

    Personally, I think a wipe would end up having us back at level 12-13 quite fast after which it would become pointless to try levelling again. I don't think a wipe would bring enough players back to the game to give us enough of a community to go hunting in large dungeons other than saturdays. It could even possibly alientate some players who are newer, causing numbers to drop. It would only be fun for a few months, the best option as I see it is to create long term, sustainable and healthy gameplay.

    Having a wipe implemented at the same time as healthy gameplay is fine mind you, but the gameplay systems would need to be implemented before - not after.

     

  • All very true! But I'll never pass up an opportunity to drop the w-bomb >.>
     

  • I might respond positively to extended Quest lines... IF ! ... it does not in any way pull Ariki 'n any help he gets, away from a rewrite to run on modern OS's !
    None of this stuff is going to GROW Obie per se... it will only satisfy a few, as a few are all that presently play.
    What GROWs a game (good or bad), is new Blood ! We have 1 actually NEW player in the last year ! Pakal... the rest of the new "names" are alts .
    To me, what makes it last, is Ease of Entering and Quality ! Oberin has 1 of those ideals.

    IF... a small fleet a' Galleons sailed oer the Oberin horizon 'n anchored in Lerilin Harbor... a hundred or so landlubbers unloadin'... Come a Obie fortnight, another Ship, full o' 'em, drops anchor... Would that be bringin' a smile to your face mate ??
    Or would you rather just continue to roam about doing quests by yourself or maybe a couple others... on a lucky day ?
    Face this... The OLD player stock are NOT growing Oberin !!!

    No more updates or new stuff to old write; from the prime peeps doing rewrite to modern OS's !!!
    If volunteers can do something... even like Seregil's Map ! what great response he got from
    so many !!!
    But I am thinkin' on new ways to use old quest together... in a chain as you suggest... (move harp beaks from Andris to Leri )
    this rant is not meant to demean your ideas for play.
    *jumps down from the Braken stump, making room fer the next Say...en
     

  • I imagine only three pieces of coding need to be done by Ariki to implement this kind of system, I don't know if either of them are in the game but they would be

    - The ability to turn multiple different items into an NPC to complete a quest (in order to ensure the quests are part of a chain)
    - The ability for an item to not be given to other characters
    - The ability for a quest to reward successes towards a skill

    I agree through, the playerbase is fairly fixed right now and the current focus should be on cross platform/updated OS play - however that doesn't mean the game shouldn't be engaging for current players. We don't know what will get new players into this game, it's hard to get new players even into big MMOs, let alone a smaller, older one. I can't tell you that, nobody can tell us that, we can only hope.

    It shouldn't be a long side project to implement once Oberin is updated to modern OS, and more importantly, I think it would be a fun activity to include for players - especially higher ones which doesn't detract from gameplay, only enhances it.
     

  • Some great ideas in this thread. The biggest thing stopping me from playing is releveling skills on a new char, eg if I've already leveled medi on cleric to a high level I am not going to level it again to play a wizard. I think it would be awesome if I was able to level medi by playing any mage. I realize it would be hard but I think it would add a lot of variety, Basically all your chars would be in one file and after you login you select what class you want to play and your skills will be capped based on that.

    Another idea to bring some players back would be to create new classes that are slightly stronger than the current ones giving people an incentive to come back and close the gap with the elder players.

    Just my .02
    -Varto
     

  • Would have to redo quests from what they are now, so not just three lines of code . . smile
    Those three things you mentioned : kills, multiple items and specific item for player are all three not in the game
     

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