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Post subject:
 Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 07:33 PM
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Noble
Joined: May 02, 2008
Posts: 507
Status: Offline
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Red dragons have as many scales as ice dragons - last time we did that hunt, we got 80 scales each in 2 hours. The chests have also been bumped up in there, so there is excellent loot in the Volcano.
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I think last time I went to the volcano successfully I ended up with a bunch of scales an essence of speed and a platinum ring
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If I could only get an invite.  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 07:34 PM
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Noble
Joined: Oct 16, 2009
Posts: 958
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| Crom wrote: |
| Quote: |
Red dragons have as many scales as ice dragons - last time we did that hunt, we got 80 scales each in 2 hours. The chests have also been bumped up in there, so there is excellent loot in the Volcano.
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I think last time I went to the volcano successfully I ended up with a bunch of scales an essence of speed and a platinum ring
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If I could only get an invite. |
You don't need an invitation, you're permanently invited, Crom!!!! <3 |
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Lady of Dragon's Gate
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 07:52 PM
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Respectable
Joined: Jul 12, 2011
Posts: 159
Location: Right behind you
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Well maybe spicing up some stuff in the ant/spider/bat cave would make it less boring in there. I mean the pixie cave is an important place for leveling RM. And a higher level tank and cleric could take people in as sort of like apprentices.. take people under your wing and teach them how your class hunts?
For as critical as people have been about all the brigs and mercs.. I think it has been great for a lot of level 9-11 rangers/fighters/rogues for working on parry/melee/specials against critters there level. I mean they have basically been coming to us, no need to chase and farm HGs and CoS.
As for training new players... I got really lucky. Varto took me to ID as a level 6 cleric, loaned me MPRs, and walked me through what he wanted me to do step by step. Afterward he told me what I did right and wrong (like not knowing to have hiding 3 etc.) Then he took me there a few days later to ensure I fixed what I did wrong etc.
Lastly, it has to be said. There has been a steady group of people hunting ID/Skull/MR... very high level and very skilled players. They try to do more with less. I think many of us admire their skill and audacity. But they wipe out a lot. In fact fairly constantly. It isn't that ID is too hard, it is that they are challenging their skills by doing it with the bare bones of a hunt crew. You can call it bold, crazy, dumb, smart... but it is something I personally respect, even if they require very frequent rescues.
I don't think you can take this experience, of basically "min/maxing" (doing the most with the least players possible in a hunt) as proof that ID is too hard. If they added a couple more people that group is so good and skilled they would be unstopable. A group like those guys challenging themselves by making it very difficult doesn't logically mean that ID is too difficult. |
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CLERICS: can't live with them, can't live without them.
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 08:03 PM
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Noble
Joined: Oct 16, 2009
Posts: 958
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| Thanks Borti, that's exactly correct. And although the party may wipe out, more often than not the rescue themselves. |
_________________
Lady of Dragon's Gate
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 08:06 PM
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Respectable
Joined: Apr 21, 2011
Posts: 119
Status: Offline
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| good response borti.. and to add to shaydes comment.. we do it ourselves or mustafaa does it by himself =P |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 08:12 PM
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Honorable
Joined: Jun 06, 2011
Posts: 400
Status: Offline
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| None of the replies address the question: if the loot is good, they are fun places and the spawns are OK - why don't people hunt in these places more often? |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 08:18 PM
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Respectable
Joined: Apr 21, 2011
Posts: 119
Status: Offline
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| well like in my earlier post, you don't just ride a bike without training wheels first.. you can't just hop on and go.. just like without testing my skills against other places i'm not just going to hop into hell completely inexperienced and not know what i'm doing, i haven't been there but I have a fair idea of what i'm in for when I go there, because i'm taking my training wheels off by learning how places like this work in other places such as ID, or MR. just like the training that we all do to learn how to use our skills better, matters not the level, just matters if you are capable of using your skills correctly. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 08:19 PM
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Honorable
Joined: Jun 06, 2011
Posts: 400
Status: Offline
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| Shayde wrote: |
| There was a GPR reward in the tower - it was the pixie dust quest. But some people complained about it a lot, so it was changed. |
I know. I was suggesting a half-way house.
| Shayde wrote: |
| Perhaps you should go to these places before recommending changes to them? |
That is the point. People go there very infrequently I am therefore recommending a change which will encourage people to go there...
| Shayde wrote: |
| I believe this thread is about making dungeons easier, not about a particular event that happened. |
I agree. We should talk about this privately as I think you must have got the wrong impression about what happened. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 08:23 PM
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Noble
Joined: Oct 16, 2009
Posts: 958
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People are habitual by nature, and the ID and MR are comfort zones for many.
Many people find the volcano annoying with all the BM's and RB's, and it's a little claustrophobic as well.
Hell isn't hunted often because it takes a lot of effort to put that hunt together, but it's totally worth it, so I wouldn't want to see that changed.
Skull is a totally different kind of hunt, and I'd like to see it done more, but again, it's outside the comfort zone of many, and tends to take a long time to gather people down there, even though it's no further a trip than the ID.
The tower is hunted by a lot of various groups, which I believe was it's purpose. To have something for every player. I would like to see some better loot on the lower floors of the tower, as right now the loot is pretty dismal. |
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Lady of Dragon's Gate
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Post subject: @ Octar
Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 08:42 PM
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Respectable
Joined: Jul 12, 2011
Posts: 159
Location: Right behind you
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| Quote: |
| None of the replies address the question: if the loot is good, they are fun places and the spawns are OK - why don't people hunt in these places more often? |
Because getting people in Obie to be ontime, prepared, in one place, ready to go, etc etc is akin to herding cats (when you compare hunts vs other events in other MMOs.)
What makes it worse is other games have multiple servers which culturally are based on one time zone: East coats/West Coast? Asia/Eastern Europe/Western Europe. Hence it is easier to negotiate start/end times. In MaV alone we work with 4 very diverse time zones that I know of, and 5 if we do something with the Rebels. I live -7 GMT, some are -8 GMT, -6 GMT, -5 GMT, GMT and +1 GMT. It is very hard to hit a time when everyone can do something.
Most people don't use voice/chat servers like ventrilo, teamspeak and mumble. MaV does and I think it gives us a survivability edge on massive RTQs  6 vs 120 Mercs/Brigs and 30 shelters should not have been doable... I think it was because we used Ventrilo and were controlled.
But mainly I think it is time zone stuff.
One last thing again... if all of us want skilled people to hunt with, and I believe we all do, then we need to make the committment to help younger players that are teachable. Maybe we need to host some clinic "hunts" .... such as:
1. high level warrior, cleric and wizard take young wizards to the Pixie Cave. The warrior/cleric are merely there as support. The Wizard would be training the young Wizards. (Actually that place is more fun with 2 good wizards and a cleric.)
2. Multiple teams: older warrior/cleric takes several teams of younger warrior clerics to the bat cave. We teach them how to heal tanks, Tank teaches tanks how to rescue clerics and how to work as a team.
3. 2 tanks/2 clerics in support of a ranger/druid teachers. A hunt through Marali Woods for level 6-7 rangers, druids, clerics.
Those are just suggestions. I mean if we want them to know what to do in ID then isn't it our job to teach them what we want them to do? |
_________________
CLERICS: can't live with them, can't live without them.
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Post subject: RE: @ Octar
Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 08:57 PM
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Honorable
Joined: Jun 06, 2011
Posts: 400
Status: Offline
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@Shayde: some good suggestions.
@Borti: yes the herding cats phenomenon is tricky, and time zones (even more of a problem for RTQs) are very constraining. Training hunts were an idea organised by Heike and CoF a while back (more for much newer players) but as you know there were some problems with those. For dungeons, a Deli/Cass dungeon would be perfect, but I guess first few levels of aborek are the best pragmatic alternative. The Tower would be fine except for the lake of SS, but a willing fighter, wizard and cleric could maybe take them out first. |
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Post subject: RE: @ Octar
Posted: Jan 30, 2012 - 09:06 PM
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Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 2097
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Those SS are a great way to learn how to feint things when needed  |
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Post subject: RE: @ Octar
Posted: Jan 31, 2012 - 01:27 AM
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Honorable
Joined: Sep 26, 2009
Posts: 440
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| I really don't have much to add besides the fact that MR gets hunted a lot more than you might think. I don't consider myself of 'high level' or 'high skill', but in the time that I have for long hunts, I prefer the MR over the ID. I do see more hunts to the ID than in the MR, but that's probably because of better loot or something. But MR still have good loot and spawns, and it is still fun. |
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Post subject: RE: @ Octar
Posted: Jan 31, 2012 - 07:30 AM
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Royalty
Joined: Feb 13, 2008
Posts: 1365
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| An alternative solution to Octar's issue could be to make it so that creatures don't level when they kill humans if the player character killed is such low level. I mean the difference between their levels. eg level 5 cleric killed by level 11 dragon, dragon stays level 11. But if that same dragon had killed a level 10 fighter then it would become level 12. Probably haven't worded it very well, I only just woke up. |
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Given enough time, any man may master the physical. With enough knowledge, any man may become wise. It is the true warrior who can master both....and surpass the result.
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Post subject: RE: @ Octar
Posted: Jan 31, 2012 - 08:54 AM
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Honorable
Joined: Jun 06, 2011
Posts: 400
Status: Offline
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Not a bad idea, not sure how easy it is to code. Maybe the creature levels up when it has killed as many levels of PC as it is itself, i.e. skeleton only needs to kill level 4 PC, Giant needs to kill 2xlvl4 etc.
(It's probably not "my issue" though - for clarification, it wasn't me making a spirited attempt to take low-level characters into the ID, I was just trying to rescue as part of the 8th rescue party!) |
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