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Post subject:
 Posted: Feb 04, 2011 - 11:45 AM
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(demo)
Joined: Jan 20, 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Hell, MI
Status: Offline
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Shogun - I actually prefer concrete rules over vague descriptions, but it's all a matter of personal preference, but this post was not started with the desire that the rules be altered to meet my personal needs. Your point is valid and I don't disagree with it.
Gawr - I'm familiar with that site all ready (in fact, I've submitted to it in the past,) and I thank you for your lighthearted tone. It's a more viable option than the standard Oxford or Merriam Webster dictionaries (as suggested by a previous poster to check the vulgarity factor of any given euphemism,) IMO, as it covers multiple dialects of the English language and has more slang than I'm familiar with.
I mean, my biggest issue is that I don't know what offends whom. I saw dialogue between two players today that somewhat offended me, yet it contained no flat-out swears or euphemistic swears; it was more the tone that bothered me. Rather than making it my problem, I moved such that those players were no longer on screen and I wouldn't have to overhear (or in this case, read) their squabble. I'm not here to be the politeness police or determine what constitutes cyber-bullying or whatever this week's buzzword is...that's for the GM on duty to decide. If someone were to address me in that manner, I'd likely ask them to change their tone or continue the conversation out-of-game so as to not make our problem everyone's.
Anyone who's traveled abroad should understand my quandary. Words in different dialects of English carry different meanings...homely is a nice clean word I could use to illustrate this point. In Australian/British English, homely describes something that reminds one of the home, such as a meal or a person's mannerisms. In American English, homely is seen as a more polite yet somewhat insulting way to describe one as physically unattractive.
How about if I simplify my question to: What is the dominant dialect of English spoken within the gaming environment? If someone can even answer that with a nice, clear answer it would give me a better understanding of the culture I need to mimic with my manner of speech. I'm honestly too lazy to take on the hard-roleplaying element and adopt middle-ages English as my manner of speech.
If someone can answer, "UK English, BBFC U rating," or "American English, MPAA G rating," I'll be satisfied. And if euphemisms are an issue, let me know. I'm sorry to keep driving this point home, but the only reason I asked here was to avoid problems in the actual gaming environment. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 04, 2011 - 11:46 AM
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Noble
Joined: May 02, 2008
Posts: 507
Status: Offline
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*Reads Gawr's list* Oh thats just great Gawr. Now I can't say anything in Obie!
GM's call the shots. So if you receive a warning for saying something that you feel is not a swear word or that is not in bad taste then that is your answer. I'm sure you could argue your point and feel what you said at that particular time was not against ToS and you may even be right. But its not a matter of what we may feel is right to say. GM's police Oberin for the good of the game and its players and they have the last say. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 04, 2011 - 11:57 AM
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Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 2096
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Ok, once again. I've been and seen people being jailed for saying "Jesus." I've seen players and GMs using words like "whore." For me the use of the latter is way more offensive in some circumstances than invoking the name of the lord in "vain" (then you'd have to define vain).
It isn't possible to rule all situations. GMs have different sensitivities, and the same goes for players. There are even some who strongly dislike people who run around naked, people that fart, and people that burp, and yet burping is an integral part of the game, if you drink ale.
Yes, trial and error is the way to go, as in any other community. You already know that the people should be over 13 to play this game, and the general stand when it comes to swearing. That should give you a guideline. You can also verify that there are many players from the US, much fewer from the UK and Australia. And a whole bunch of them who aren't even native English speakers and will use words with second meanings they are not necessarily aware of (I did that often with the word "fag").
But if an official rating will make things easier for you, I am sure that any GM in game can tell you the grading they aim for this game to have. Maybe a simple help call could solve that problem faster. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 04, 2011 - 01:00 PM
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Spammer
Joined: Apr 11, 2009
Posts: 1275
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| The dominant dialect is American English, certainly, simply due to the player numbers from that country. And on another point, and I've said it before, speaking English from the Middle Ages would be amusing, perhaps, but rather difficult. No one does it. If the Middle Ages run from the 5th to the 15th century, it also encompasses a vast number of dialects and linguistic changes anyway. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 04, 2011 - 01:04 PM
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(demo)
Joined: Jan 20, 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Hell, MI
Status: Offline
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Crom - I still take issue with the lack of consistency, but it's an issue I'll take silently in the future. As you said, the GMs are the police, and what they say goes. If I feel the need to appeal an issue, I'll do so to the GM who busted me.
Cassandra - I may take your advice and have some dialogue with the next GM I find wandering about. I see Gorhael and Imrothas fairly regularly.
I did get chastised by someone one time for not putting on a robe whilst they repaired my armour (long ago, probably 2004 or 2005, before I moved to the States at any rate) and another person for saying I was afk for a quick bonger (cigarette, not as in "hitting the bong" as the Yanks say when they partake of cannabis.) *grumble grumble grumble* Fag is another one of those tricky words...to me it's a cigarette, to a lot of people it's a slur against homosexuals and/or general purpose insult. Like 'poof'...to me it's an insult/slur against homosexuals, to others it describes a corpse, bag, or something else disappearing.
Also, thank you for the clarification that most players are American. It makes it easier when it comes to lingo...i.e. don't say "Nipping off for a quick fag," when I'm afk to smoke so it's not taken out of context and/or deemed offensive. As it stands, I've had a mixed bag of nationalities (several Japanese, Australians, and Americans) in my adventures and downtime, and the only thing I knew for sure was that the server is hosted in the States. I'm trying to figure it all out so I can, for example, address the Japanese players as CharacterName-san, as I would if I were in Japan. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 04, 2011 - 01:08 PM
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Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 2096
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 04, 2011 - 02:51 PM
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Honorable
Joined: Apr 18, 2007
Posts: 321
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If you stick to "G-rated, no euphemisms, understandable to an international audience (i.e. no country/county specific dialect)", then you'll be just fine.
Concerning "poof", it's an exception. The usage here comes from the verb "to poof", a short form of the onomatopoeic "to go poof!", i.e. "to vanish".
Another way to look at it that is to not say anything that Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck wouldn't say either. The latter is certainly known for being cantankerous, but that's very different from using vulgar language.
Speaking of Disney characters, here an interesting post-mortem of a Disney MMORPG and how they tried to uphold the "Disney Standard" ("No kid will be harassed, even if they donít know they are being harassed") in an online game. Their hopes were easily crushed by the first 14 year old tester who constructed the sentence "I want to stick my long-necked Giraffe up your fluffy white bunny."... |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 04, 2011 - 03:07 PM
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Royalty
Joined: Jan 11, 2007
Posts: 1243
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
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Micky mouse, known to be one of the most racist disney characters of all time...
yes... let's all speak like him... |
_________________
Shogun's Way of the Cleric
"You sound like a porn star" - Isen.
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 04, 2011 - 03:32 PM
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Noble
Joined: May 02, 2008
Posts: 507
Status: Offline
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 04, 2011 - 04:42 PM
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Noble
Joined: Jun 11, 2007
Posts: 734
Status: Offline
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Do you have a larger version of that pic?
I can't really make out the details... |
_________________
"Remember... No Dragon has ever cared how skilled you are at Tracking, Bandaging, or Potion-Making."
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 04, 2011 - 05:50 PM
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Noble
Joined: May 02, 2008
Posts: 507
Status: Offline
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| Not sure how to make it smaller so I took it out. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 04, 2011 - 10:01 PM
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Honorable
Joined: Dec 25, 2008
Posts: 423
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Easy way to figure it out. Listen to others. Read the forum. See how far they push the limits of offensive or lewd language. Use that as a guideline. Let the others get in trouble for it if you are worried about it.
If you think something may be taken offensively, then it probably shouldn't be said. Its that simple. If you feel the need to insult and can't think up something appropriate, there is /insult. I'd venture to say if the word comes up in /insult, its safe to say in game.
As you've noticed, GMs typically give warnings first if they think its a context or dialect issue. If you are worried you are using up any good will they may have towards you, stay quiet unless you know what you are saying is clean. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 04, 2011 - 11:32 PM
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Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 2096
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| Kwesyther wrote: |
| "I want to stick my long-necked Giraffe up your fluffy white bunny."... |
That's so sweet.  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 04, 2011 - 11:51 PM
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(demo)
Joined: Jan 20, 2011
Posts: 13
Location: Hell, MI
Status: Offline
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Anton - I've seen people *try* to speak a variant of Middle Ages English, and other players unload on people for speaking modern English. My first character tried to model his speech after that used by the NPCs in Neverwinter Nights and/or Icewind Dale, which made sense to me since pretty much every role playing game (excepting some Japanese RPGs) made in the last 30 years seems to borrow from D&D at some point.
Shogun - That is awesome. Most people plain forget, or simply do not like it mentioned, that a lot of Disney's early stuff contained racism, and that Walt Disney himself was some sort of a Nazi sympathizer.
Cassandra - The information in the link is old, but it does help with establishing whereabouts the player community is from. Again, thank you.
Laricen - I tried the osmosis method, and offensive is still in the eyes of the offendee, so to speak, and not the offender. The conversation I walked away from, wherein one player called another player's aims in the games idiotic and foolish, is a good example. Nothing strictly profane, euphemistic or otherwise was said, however I strongly disagree with any player telling another player what their aims in the game should be. As it says on the home page, if you want to go on a quest, do it. If you want to spend a day crafting, do it. If you don't feel like grinding until you have a L15 character, then don't.
I don't disagree with what you're saying, though.
I've never cared much for the /insult function...it seems useless, in my mind, as I have a firm enough grasp of four different languages to come up with something more fitting than four random words prefaced by thou. "Thou horn-swaggling goat herder," just doesn't seem applicable to insult whatever timorous beastie I may be battling. I don't particularly feel the need to insult the players (which seems to be the intended function of the /insult, and if it's not, I apologise for my misunderstanding,) and if I did, it would likely be those with whom I've developed a rapport, in a jocular manner, on AIM so as it would not be misconstrued.
It's like Antoninus said in the post about my suggestion on stiffer curse penalties...plates like to say, "Me bash things!" or variants thereof. I commonly shout, BAD DOG!, when faced with hell hounds or blink hounds, and like to use 'SPLAT!' when I'm pulping a pixie with a hammer. My Ranger likes to correct trolls (or giants, can't remember which exactly says, 'Me run now,' and which begs for mercy) with, "No, you die now," as he takes the kill shot when the enemy flees from combat. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 05, 2011 - 07:36 PM
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Spammer
Joined: Jan 11, 2007
Posts: 2250
Location: Jinker's Basement
Status: Offline
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| Well I only speak one language (and even that modest claim is debatable) but I can tell you that this entire thread is a load of bollocks. |
_________________
http://www.tompato.com/
"Unable to love each other, the English turn naturally to dogs." - J R Ackerley
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