 |
| Main Menu |
|
|
|
|
| Navigation |
|
|
|
|
| Login |
|
|
|
|
| RTQ News |
|
|
|
| Player Stories |
|
|
|
| Player Art |
|
|
|
| Logged in Website |
|
There are 3 registered users online.
You are an anonymous user. You can register for free by clicking here
|
|
| Author |
Message |
|
|
Post subject:
 Posted: Feb 01, 2012 - 03:22 PM
|
|
Noble
Joined: May 02, 2008
Posts: 507
Status: Offline
|
|
| What if the Lizard King had a whole new underground fort? A secret ent in the Kings room could lead to it. There's your new dungeon. We would still have the upper level and the second would be one step harder to do. And anyone venturing down there would have to keep in mind that when they decide to leave they will have to contend with a whole new spawn up top and fight there way back to the main hall. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Post subject: Re: Dungeons and the current player base
Posted: Feb 01, 2012 - 04:26 PM
|
|
Royalty
Joined: Jan 24, 2007
Posts: 1117
Location: World of Warcraft
Status: Offline
|
|
| Octar wrote: |
I think the array of caves and dungeons at the moment is out of balance with the active player base.
Here is a list of popular dungeons:
Ice Dungeon
Here is a list that people do hunt in from time to time:
MR
Pixie cave
Ant cave
Spider cave
Here is a list that are hunted very infrequently (and which often lead to a total loss of the party):
Aborek
Skull Dungeon
Volcano
Tower
And when was the last time a party even went into hell or Crausaars? More than one Obie year ago? The threads on the forums would seem to suggest it.
The current "solution" seems for there to be frequent brigand/mercenary/privateer/phase serpent ambushes at the Ice dungeon, even though it is pretty dangerous already. I think apart from rescues, practically every time I have been in the ID there has been some sort of ambush, ranging from fun through annoying all the way up to total clustersomething. This is pretty dispiriting if you spend three hours setting the thing up, another 30 minutes getting there...
Could I propose instead that the other dungeons are made more accessible and rewarding for mid-level players? This means toning down some of the spawns and increasing the rewards. If the active player base gets up further, they can always be adjusted back again. There just isn't any point in having a bunch of complicated and no doubt interesting dungeons that nobody ever goes into.
Also it's no good for newer players. There was a spirited attempt to get some people who had never been into the ID today, and I am sorry to say that being part of the 8th rescue party we failed to recover the bodies. |
If I may as a former player.
Only dungeon I truly liked was Ice dungeon. Maybe because it had 3 wings (it's no small dungeon) and yet you could get to one you liked quickly. Maybe because of spawns which suited me. For whatever reason I really enjoyed every Ice dungeon hunt, especially the ones where GMs did something unexpected (something unexpected, be it spawns or RTQs were the reason I played Oberin so long I guess - it's the truly unique part of the game).
On the opposite side stands Tower (loved the first run when we were guessing how to get to another part, but since that was known...) and Aborek, two dungeons I strongly disliked, the last Tower hunt and following argument I got into being the reason behind my final leave.
I still believe the game and it's players deserve one true hardcore progression raid like "Hell". It reminds me of our dedicated 6 months of weekly 25 men raids in Ice Crown Citadel - WoW. It was epic and we were never able to finish it either (shame shame! but that's life). Truth is, you could still get decent rewards from ICC25 even without finishing it, while in Hell you will just die and it's a ghost trap. I believe ghosts should be able to leave the dungeon in some way... And would be good to actually have some form of reward for trying. And as a druid I would never go in of course, why would I lead my lvl 12 pets to certain death without no pet resurrection spell. No, ty (druid never had a clear group role at dungeons anyway). 
As goes for other dungeons being tuned down and offering greater rewards for mid players, you should specify which ones you meant exactly. I believe Aborek is fairly easy for example. Maybe could use some boost in rewards, but I remember I went through many Aborek runs with top players because of really good and rare chest drops. In other words boosting rewards further would mean more hunts from top players easily getting those improved rewards (harvesting/grinding). Not to mention soloing rogues (problem with classes never being even slightly balanced).
If you tune dungeons down to be accessible for mid players, what will they do when/if they reach high levels. There would be nothing to look forward except for more grinding and mouse button mashing on bank steps.
____
I would just abandon the dungeon chests concept and I would let creatures in dungeons to randomly drop good stuff. It would prevent exploiting if nothing else.
____
I'm tired at job at the end of todays "shift" and I posted my WoW forum post already. So forgive me of my intrusion!
Have a good day, |
_________________
I'M A DRUID AND THUS I'M OVERPOWERED! >:C
Last edited by davonsemris on Feb 01, 2012 - 07:29 PM; edited 1 time in total
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: Dungeons and the current player base
Posted: Feb 01, 2012 - 05:00 PM
|
|
Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 2098
|
|
Davon,
Hell (or Lava Dungeon) is the dungeon where people go with a fire pure, most of the times can make it, sometimes they die and can't get out. The rewards are usually quite good.
Crausaar's is the dungeon that no one knows how it ends, and that fits the kind of description of "hardcore progression" you were making. It does have a ghost exit. It has no rewards, though, because you can only leave as a ghost, if you don't finish it. (Hey, that's making me miss the place more and more...) |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Feb 01, 2012 - 06:47 PM
|
|
Citizen
Joined: Jan 05, 2009
Posts: 95
Location: Midwest, USA
Status: Offline
|
|
I think that's a hint that we should organize a party to attempt Crausaars again!!!
Count me in. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: Dungeons and the current player base
Posted: Feb 01, 2012 - 07:26 PM
|
|
Royalty
Joined: Jan 24, 2007
Posts: 1117
Location: World of Warcraft
Status: Offline
|
|
| Cassandra wrote: |
Davon,
Hell (or Lava Dungeon) is the dungeon where people go with a fire pure, most of the times can make it, sometimes they die and can't get out. The rewards are usually quite good.
Crausaar's is the dungeon that no one knows how it ends, and that fits the kind of description of "hardcore progression" you were making. It does have a ghost exit. It has no rewards, though, because you can only leave as a ghost, if you don't finish it. (Hey, that's making me miss the place more and more...) |
*nods* It's some time I'm out, that's what I meant indeed. And if there is ghost exit...  |
_________________
I'M A DRUID AND THUS I'M OVERPOWERED! >:C
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: Dungeons and the current player base
Posted: Feb 01, 2012 - 10:45 PM
|
|
Honorable
Joined: Sep 26, 2009
Posts: 441
|
|
| Gawr wrote: |
| No one has mentioned the tunnel that connects Lizard Isle and Mirith Mainland. That's a lot of fun for lower to mid-range skill levels and a good place to learn team work in tight spaces. |
That would be a good place for the skill range you mentioned. It has a few Gapers along with Poison Elementals and Zombies, so it would be a challenge. I mean, when I run through there alone, it usually takes several minutes because the Gapers like to paralyze me over and over again. A mid-range skill level group could have a fun challenge going through that tunnel, and then of course the fort itself.
| Crom wrote: |
| What if the Lizard King had a whole new underground fort? A secret ent in the Kings room could lead to it. There's your new dungeon. We would still have the upper level and the second would be one step harder to do. And anyone venturing down there would have to keep in mind that when they decide to leave they will have to contend with a whole new spawn up top and fight there way back to the main hall. |
I like this idea a lot. It would be somewhat like the MR and the TM, because there would be a spawn up on top and you couldn't escape too easily if you were in danger. If a group was to camp in the underground fort, they would have a hard time getting out because of the relatively crazy spawns in the King's chamber. This way the mid-level groups could still hunt the normal fort, while slightly more skilled groups could advance into the basement.
The point is I like Lizard Fort...a lot  |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: Dungeons and the current player base
Posted: Feb 12, 2012 - 03:35 AM
|
|
Honorable
Joined: Jun 06, 2011
Posts: 400
Status: Offline
|
|
| Hum so Hell just seems to have changed: we all just got red text... |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: Dungeons and the current player base
Posted: Feb 12, 2012 - 03:55 AM
|
|
Honorable
Joined: Sep 26, 2009
Posts: 441
|
|
| Well that just gave me so many questions and no answers. I guess I won't find out until later. Have a nice..hunt? |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: Dungeons and the current player base
Posted: Feb 12, 2012 - 03:57 AM
|
|
Honorable
Joined: Jun 06, 2011
Posts: 400
Status: Offline
|
|
| Probably the magma golems were replaced with giant snails. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: Dungeons and the current player base
Posted: Feb 12, 2012 - 04:07 AM
|
|
Honorable
Joined: Sep 26, 2009
Posts: 441
|
|
!!!
Man that place is gonna be harder than Crausaar's! I doubt anyone will be able to survive it. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: Dungeons and the current player base
Posted: Feb 20, 2012 - 01:22 PM
|
|
Honorable
Joined: Jun 06, 2011
Posts: 400
Status: Offline
|
|
The change wasn't giant snails, but as Lou Bene puts it, some of the red dracos have grown to adulthood... Although apparently fewer than before, there are still a good number of Magma Golems and GPRs are still recommended.
I was part of the first party that went to Hell after the modification, and I think there have been a couple more trips since. I never went there before the change, but common consent seems to be that the new arrangement is an improvement in terms of accessibility. Kevin AIMed me during a short potion break with the very apt comment "I anatomize this to be extremely good fun!".
The arrangement of the dungeon seems to discourage a camp-and-farm approach, and instead a sort of circuit round the dungeon is a decent option. Even when the novelty wears off, I can see this becoming a regular hunting destination for very strong parties, and a rival for the Ice Dungeon in popularity.
I think this is a good example of the sort of tweak that is probably needed for several dungeons in Oberin - maybe some minor changes to the less difficult dungeons will be equally effective. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: Dungeons and the current player base
Posted: Feb 20, 2012 - 02:31 PM
|
|
Honorable
Joined: Feb 05, 2009
Posts: 405
Status: Offline
|
|
In part the dungeons aren't explained properly and there is also not enough for them to do as Crom, cass and alot of people have mentioned.
When a new generation starts up they don't really know which dungeons and places are fun, challenging and at their level. When i was a Demo; Flingee, pevin, and a few others took me to fight dragons in TM. I died about 7 times and had an amazing time. It was way over my ability and at that stage I didnt know about success loss or anything. I grew up thinking MR and TM was the biggest deadliest place in oberin. After getting a taste of TM i decided to grind my way up so i could join the older players and after a while im level 9ish (dont remember my exact level at the time) and MR was suddenly way to easy when i got back to it, So i missed out on being a young level that would stand a chance in there but wouldn't find it boring.
For me and i think a lot of people it was "Your level 8, give me 50k ill give you 2 LPRs and lets go to ID" That was all anyone wanted to hunt, the older players didn't want to do the first few levels of Aborek for new players or hunt in any place that didn't challenge them or give them great loot.
Recently we voted Hell to be the new ID, that's fine with me but now we are going to say "your level 9 give me 100k and here is your first set of MPRs and lets go to Hell" but now they are going to miss out on ID and other dungeons until they have already passed the "Optimal level" for said dungeon.
This really cant be changed by saying "oh we promise to take some new groups through the first few levels of Aborek or Tower" Its a fact, dungeons go through Trends we had ID when i started then a little volcano trend and then an MR trend and now its a Hell trend.
I am likely going to be hated for saying this but get rid of some places to make room for younger group oriented dungeons. I personally and selfishly say it will be sad to see those places disappear, but at least if the older generation suddenly vanish, the younguns have an incremental plane in which they can climb, and it prevents this culture of HG leveling until level 10 and then you can join us which i hate with a passion.
Dang Cass... I'm slowly falling into the pit of "maybe a player wipe would be a good idea", but then i remember that i would be level 10 in a week and it would become warped again from those "Knowing" how to level and those poor souls that seems stuck on level 6 forever.
but a player wipe...
hmm...
(Really tired, became tangential, sorry for this messy post) |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2012 - 11:10 PM
|
|
Royalty
Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 2098
|
|
I only think a wipe would be cool if there was a complete change in the game, not as a way to make everyone go to demo state again and repeat the same processes and cheats.  (It's far too easy to get to level 10 now, because people are told from day one what they are meant to do to level up fast...)
As for getting rid of dungeons, I'd rather replace farming spots with new things and keep Aborek, the tower, the volcano, and all those places where people go for the hunt's sake, and not for the loot. But I am aware it is a matter of taste, and many others like to hunt for treasure. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Feb 21, 2012 - 04:25 AM
|
|
Honorable
Joined: Jun 06, 2011
Posts: 400
Status: Offline
|
|
| @Cass the problem is to hunt in all those fun places you sort of need MPRs, hence farming spots. One nice thing about the Lava dungeon as reconfigured is it's not a farm - yes the loot is good, but it's great fun too |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Feb 24, 2012 - 09:08 PM
|
|
Respectable
Joined: Nov 01, 2010
Posts: 238
Status: Offline
|
|
| Octar wrote: |
| @Cass the problem is to hunt in all those fun places you sort of need MPRs, hence farming spots. One nice thing about the Lava dungeon as reconfigured is it's not a farm - yes the loot is good, but it's great fun too |
Yup. Farms make us "rich," or at least capable of accessing further, "real" riches (that aren't just looted the 1st time we die, after getting them). Loot is an incentive, but the Fun is what makes Dungeons worth re-doing.
| Cassandra wrote: |
| *edits once again* I swear I tried to go for a short post... |
Well. After reading the 1st Post, for the first time, through to deli(mew)'s helpful comment, so still just a few, I'll attempt the same, knowing that my own Memory is triggering me back to 3 distant and practically ancient, in terms of centuries now, relatives, I thought, all drowning not-far from some who lived; they - the remainders - had to admit they could not swim Well Enough to Rescue to Save the others, but it was just 1 at a time, so yeah, sorry for your (massive, possibly costly) losses.
That said, my first resposes to "Dungeon that's Easier.."? was "hmm, there're the Sewers.." I advocated them not just for rogue (LP, R T skills), and druid (Pet material and /or food) classes, then quickly followed by the already-mentioned (and fully-Mapped, by Ames, in Player Art) Ant Cave by Lerilin, even. I can recall starting from level 1, then level 2ish "accidentally" entering it as a Ghost, since I didn't know how entrances worked and didn't-know if I could get out again once-entered, only to see (as it really looks normally BTW in "living" color) a Gray world.. no surprise, but where was the cursed Exit??
Thankfully, we Now (as of more than a year and 3 months ago) have Candle-like twiinkly Lights by Exits, off-surface (though not the Ladder-types, however these are All more-obvious, I can say confidently having seen all but 2 of the off-surface areas in person) and "going up." So here's my other thought: PvP is nearest to Lerilin (just Raft N. from the Lerilin Cemetery, appropriately, it takes you to another black metal-fenced area, you can't miss it), an entire Island: when there, if a GM appears especially there's always something more to do than gather ash and other dropped items. If the question is loot, though, and /or group hunts are Not /Available, then there is a niche, there.. a niche so far I fill doing what deli suggests, running the woods and grinding the cem's. Even Rafting far, Far away, discovering that island S.R.C.N.'s Map doesn't show NE of Marali, you get the drift.. or, of course just go to the more dangerous, surface areas that one finds, and avoids, otherwise. |
_________________
Noob Node non-Ghost mapping project http://oberin.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=4838
[Poll] Way of the rogue? no way! http://oberin.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=5001
and Oberin trading values table
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Register
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
